.chrislhayes: “This is the most important WITHPod we’ve done, I think. Certainly the most intense.” Listen to this convo on the looming 'climate apocalypse' with author David Wallace-Wells, and read the full transcript here:
Is it too late for us? Scientists have spent decades sounding the alarm on the devastating effects of climate change. And for decades, society decided to do pretty much nothing about it. In fact, over the past 30 years, we’ve done more damage to the climate than in all of human history!In his book “”, David Wallace-Wells depicts a catastrophic future far worse than we ever imagined... and far sooner than we thought.
And so, I was trying to think about the best way to intro it, and then got an email from Brendan McDonald, who is the brilliant producer who edits our interviews. Sometimes he'll send an email after he's taken a pass from an interview and edited it down, with some notes about the intro. Saying,"Oh, you may need to set this up," or"You mentioned this, but you never say what it is. So, think about this.
That's the topic of today's conversation. I found it really bracing. I find it kind of beautiful, in a dark, cold and lonely way. But it's something. It's intense as hell, and I think it is as important a book as I've read in a long time."," by David Wallace-Wells.
And what that means for how you and I relate to one another, what it means for our politics, our culture, our story telling, these are all questions that had not yet even been asked, let alone sort of thought through in any concrete way. And it just felt like such a large, large story and I felt like, you know, needed to be told, even just from a narrative imperative as much as from a scientific perspective or an advocacy perspective. Although those came later.
CHRIS HAYES: Human interaction at the person-to-person level, the social level, at the nation-state level. Human gestation and development. The way that we make our food. The way that we provide the calories we need. The ways that we relate to each other in the places we live. In every environment. And where we're on track for is four degrees — actually a little north of four degrees — by the end of the century. And that range of outcomes was really just up until quite recently, not at all discussed by people who were talking about climate science in the public. For a number of reasons, some of which are noble. Some of which are understandable. Others of which I think are not. The public just was not given this information what the world would be like at three degrees, at four degrees.
CHRIS HAYES: And then, so when you think about four degrees — again part of this is hard because there's like a bunch of really big numbers and then a bunch of really small ones. So it's like when you say like,, and then it's like one degree or two degrees. Like it's a real challenge for the human mathematical mind to make sense of those numbers. But one of the things that stuck out to me in the book — one line.
DAVID WALLACE-WELLS: Yeah. I mean even if it's not true, it's a kind of comforting parable that we all live by in some emotional way. Yeah.
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